What do you think of the recent Red Hat announcement about CentOS Linux/Stream?

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What do you think of the recent Red Hat announcement about CentOS Linux/Stream?

I can use either CentOS Linux or Stream and it makes no difference to me
17
13%
I will switch reluctantly to CentOS Stream but I'd rather not
8
6%
I depend on CentOS Linux 8 and its stability and now I need a new alternative
28
22%
I love the idea of CentOS Stream and can't wait to use it
11
8%
I'm off to a different distribution before CentOS 8 sunsets at the end of 2021
25
19%
I feel completely betrayed by this decision and will avoid Red Hat solutions in future
41
32%
 
Total votes: 130

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TrevorH
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Re: What do you think of the recent Red Hat announcement about CentOS Linux/Stream?

Post by TrevorH » 2021/02/25 01:12:58

CentOS 6 died in November 2020 - migrate to a new version!
Info for USB installs on http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/InstallFromUSBkey
CentOS 5 is dead, do not use it.
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jimbux
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Re: What do you think of the recent Red Hat announcement about CentOS Linux/Stream?

Post by jimbux » 2021/02/25 03:58:57

KernelOops wrote:
2021/02/24 17:11:09
Since I refuse to be a beta tester for RedHat... especially since RedHat Stream has no security updates like RHEL, I moved to AlmaLinux,
[snip]
So AlmaLinux (or Rocky?) looks promising, but what confuses me is what the management of RedHat are thinking with this strategy. Here's what confuses me...

Assuming I understand the basics: All Linux distros are open source, i.e.; RedHat is open source, so anyone can copy it and build it and use it (right?). So once AlmaLinux gets established and (say) becomes a defacto replacement for CentOS, then whatever benefit the folks at RedHat THOUGHT they were getting by trying to force our hands to move to RHEL, will disappear. In the mean time they've created lots of bad-faith and ill-will (perhaps even eroding confidence in using Linux AT ALL), not to mention a ton of unnecessary work for for many thousands of people and businesses. Am I right? (This seems like pretty basic logic - lots of downside and VERY little upside.)

So... what gives? How is this a smart business decision? I'm asking honestly because I admit that my knowledge is limited and I might be missing something important here, or perhaps not even understanding how this whole open-source thing works.

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jlehtone
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Re: What do you think of the recent Red Hat announcement about CentOS Linux/Stream?

Post by jlehtone » 2021/02/25 10:21:43

jimbux wrote:
2021/02/25 03:58:57
(This seems like pretty basic logic - lots of downside and VERY little upside.)
Depends on viewpoint. Statements from Red Hat have been along the lines that they did originally fund CentOS Linux because they got a development platform with that money. However, whatever was developed back then is no longer the hype and this platform is unnecessary for the new hype. They don't want to pay for what they do not need. Don't we all follow that principle?

Red Hat continues to "produce" RHEL. Its development is now a bit more transparent. From Red Hat's viewpoint they are now "more nice" to their customers.

Those are little upsides.


When a company has to get an enterprise Linux with support contract, what do they choose? Experts/admins are likely to recommend system that they are familiar with. Users of CentOS Linux are indirectly familiar with RHEL. So will be users of Alma, Rocky, and Oracle Linux. If some CentOS Linux users now migrate to OL, then they might recommend Oracle's offer over RHEL. That is a downside from Red Hat's perspective.

If CentOS Linux users migrate to non-RPM-based systems, then they will recommend whatever options there is. A downside for Red Hat.
However, was the spawn of Alma and Rocky completely unexpected? Did Red Hat bet that something would appear?
Which is less unnecessary work: migration to clone of CentOS or to totally different platform?

gjakob
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Re: What do you think of the recent Red Hat announcement about CentOS Linux/Stream?

Post by gjakob » 2021/02/25 16:12:43

jlehtone wrote:
2021/02/25 10:21:43
jimbux wrote:
2021/02/25 03:58:57
(This seems like pretty basic logic - lots of downside and VERY little upside.)
Depends on viewpoint. Statements from Red Hat have been along the lines that they did originally fund CentOS Linux because they got a development platform with that money. However, whatever was developed back then is no longer the hype and this platform is unnecessary for the new hype. They don't want to pay for what they do not need. Don't we all follow that principle?

Red Hat continues to "produce" RHEL. Its development is now a bit more transparent. From Red Hat's viewpoint they are now "more nice" to their customers.

Those are little upsides.


When a company has to get an enterprise Linux with support contract, what do they choose? Experts/admins are likely to recommend system that they are familiar with. Users of CentOS Linux are indirectly familiar with RHEL. So will be users of Alma, Rocky, and Oracle Linux. If some CentOS Linux users now migrate to OL, then they might recommend Oracle's offer over RHEL. That is a downside from Red Hat's perspective.

If CentOS Linux users migrate to non-RPM-based systems, then they will recommend whatever options there is. A downside for Red Hat.
However, was the spawn of Alma and Rocky completely unexpected? Did Red Hat bet that something would appear?
Which is less unnecessary work: migration to clone of CentOS or to totally different platform?
You forgot to mention that (former) users of CentOS Linux (who don't want to move to CentOS Stream for any reason) also have the option to use the original RHEL for free provided that they have registered for a (free) developer account at Red Hat. Therefore I don't see any point on why users should switch from CentOS Linux to e.g. OL (or any other clone) instead of RHEL, since clones always have the disadvantage that they lag behind more or less in terms of updates.
Last edited by gjakob on 2021/02/25 16:25:51, edited 1 time in total.

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TrevorH
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Re: What do you think of the recent Red Hat announcement about CentOS Linux/Stream?

Post by TrevorH » 2021/02/25 16:25:48

Because there are quite severe license restrictions on the "free" developer account. No more than 16 systems. "Individual" production use only, whatever that means.
CentOS 6 died in November 2020 - migrate to a new version!
Info for USB installs on http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/InstallFromUSBkey
CentOS 5 is dead, do not use it.
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gjakob
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Re: What do you think of the recent Red Hat announcement about CentOS Linux/Stream?

Post by gjakob » 2021/02/25 16:34:54

TrevorH wrote:
2021/02/25 16:25:48
Because there are quite severe license restrictions on the "free" developer account. No more than 16 systems. "Individual" production use only, whatever that means.
So e.g. three free developer accounts associated with the corresponding number of e-mail accounts would already be sufficient to run close to 50 systems! :)
Seriously, if you want to run such a number of machines for presumably productive use then it almost borders on negligence not to have a support contract. And if you are deployed in a less mission critical environment, then the totally free CentOS Stream is at least as good provided that the cons I have previously mentioned are going to be sorted out soon. I'm confident that they will soon be eradicated.
Last edited by gjakob on 2021/02/25 16:52:38, edited 1 time in total.

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TrevorH
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Re: What do you think of the recent Red Hat announcement about CentOS Linux/Stream?

Post by TrevorH » 2021/02/25 16:51:12

Stream is not suitable to run in a production environment. It's a beta of the next RHEL and breaks regularly.
CentOS 6 died in November 2020 - migrate to a new version!
Info for USB installs on http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/InstallFromUSBkey
CentOS 5 is dead, do not use it.
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MartinR
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Re: What do you think of the recent Red Hat announcement about CentOS Linux/Stream?

Post by MartinR » 2021/02/25 17:08:48

it almost borders on negligence not to have a support contract
Not always the sysadmin's call though. Junior management can show a saving to more senior management if they cancel the support, and any problems are of course the system staff's fault.

DavidMcCann
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Re: What do you think of the recent Red Hat announcement about CentOS Linux/Stream?

Post by DavidMcCann » 2021/02/25 17:12:34

The first Linux I actually installed all by myself was Fedora 1, having previously used Red Hat. When Fedora adopted Gnome 3, I said "not on my computer you don't" and switched to CentOS. Then my desktop died and the latest CentOS still hadn't implemented Xfce, so I quit. Was I surprised by Red Hat's subsequent action? Sadly, no. Ironically, I'd switched to a rolling-release distro — PCLinuxOS! But rolling-release with a sense of caution. In the last year I've only had one thing break — a card game — and that was fixed in 24 hours. And no systemd, either.

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Re: What do you think of the recent Red Hat announcement about CentOS Linux/Stream?

Post by tunk » 2021/02/25 17:39:17

All Linux distros are open source, i.e.; RedHat is open source, so anyone can copy it and build it and use it (right?).
Not quite: many RHEL packages use a BSD license, and AFAIK, they're not required to release the source code of these.

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