Disappointed in pickup of new packages in EPEL

A 5 star hangout for overworked and underpaid system admins.
Post Reply
smithgcovert1
Posts: 8
Joined: 2015/12/31 20:57:57

Disappointed in pickup of new packages in EPEL

Post by smithgcovert1 » 2020/09/14 14:18:44

Hello!

I am posting this in Social instead of CentOS 8 support, as in this case I think its more appropriate here than there:

I use CentOS both at work and at home, and for work it still makes complete sense. But my home servers (CentOS 7, right now, mostly) have always been a bit different, in that I really like how CentOS was stable and slow, but there was still a lot of great stuff in EPEL and other repos so that I could make my super stable servers also run some cool new'ish stuff. Maybe it wasn't the latest version, but pretty much everything was still available.

At least, that was true for CentOS 7, with ports of Mate and Cinnamon and enough other stuff I never felt like I was missing out too much.

I have been following EPEL for CentOS 8 though, and and it just feels like much slower uptake of getting packages there compared to previous versions 5/6/7. It feels like the extra work required for porting to the new build systems required for 8 have put a lot of maintainers off, and they've just said they don't want to do it any more.

I'm not sure if there is anything else at work here (IBM / Redhat merger, community stuff I'm not aware of) - but it just feels different than it did with prior versions.

BTW, I totally get and know the arguments of CentOS is stable because it is always behind everything else by a few years, and that if you want cutting edge stuff, don't use CentOS. I've been using CentOS since version 4, and know all about that.

But as I look to rebuild my home servers, since in place upgrade is not a possibility, I'm considering moving to Fedora (ugh, yearly updates, at least) or Ubuntu LTS (ugh, apt, but at least they always support in place upgrades) -- Especially if EPEL and other repos don't start filling out more fully and getting more traction.

Am I incorrect in these perceptions? Its been over a year since 8 was released, and EPEL (and other repos) still feel much less complete than the 7 repos.

User avatar
TrevorH
Forum Moderator
Posts: 29662
Joined: 2009/09/24 10:40:56
Location: Brighton, UK

Re: Disappointed in pickup of new packages in EPEL

Post by TrevorH » 2020/09/14 15:05:53

Have you enabled epel-testing and epel-playground? At least at first, almost everything seemed to need those two permanently enabled though I think it is a little better now than it was.

EPEL still seem to be struggling with how to build modules. Not a very bright idea really Red Hat, introducing something into RHEL 8 that hadn't been beta tested in Fedora for years and that has had a significant effect on everyone that builds for 8. Modularity in general seems to be half arsed idea, half thought through and badly executed both from the POV of the people building packages (why does it need new and complicated tools, why didn't someone try to integrate it into the existing ones?!) and from the POV of people consuming them (dnf module functions seem to be an add on that no-one thought about and you have to coerce it into telling you that things exist at all.
CentOS 6 will die in November 2020 - migrate sooner rather than later!
Info for USB installs on http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/InstallFromUSBkey
CentOS 5 is dead, do not use it.
Full time Geek, part time moderator. Use the FAQ Luke

smithgcovert1
Posts: 8
Joined: 2015/12/31 20:57:57

Re: Disappointed in pickup of new packages in EPEL

Post by smithgcovert1 » 2020/09/14 16:15:28

Have you enabled epel-testing and epel-playground?
I did, but I still seem to find what's available to be lacking.

And not just looking at what's available today, right this moment, but thinking to long term prospects of what will be available there in 1,2,3 years -- it just feels like momentum has stalled instead of accelerating.

And that can then cause a spiraling issue that I'm afraid may be hard to recover from. Fewer packages being available means less incentive for new hobbyist installs, leading to smaller incentives for package maintainers to take on the pain, leading to even fewer added packages.

Sorry, I know I have no answers on how to solve this, but wanted to share, because a long term, devoted CentOS user, the situation saddens me. If I am contemplating a different distribution for my next server build, there has to be others feeling the same, and I feel like I am then contributing to the spiral.

User avatar
KernelOops
Posts: 346
Joined: 2013/12/18 15:04:03
Location: xfs file system

Re: Disappointed in pickup of new packages in EPEL

Post by KernelOops » 2020/09/15 17:24:00

I've seen the same complaint since the day CentOS 8 was released. Some blame IBM's involvement in Redhat, its been mentioned that Redhat was told to limit its involvement in projects like CentOS, but that was just a rumour and never officially confirmed.

Still, the essence of the matter, is that CentOS has been struggling across the board, struggling to get CentOS 8 released, struggling to get bugs fixed upstream by RedHat, struggling to even create a minimal iso image (we waited a year...) and yes, also struggling to get EPEL 8 packages.

There are complaints about GNOME3 as the default desktop, which is a really horrible user interface, mimicking Android/MacOS with a mobile-friendly interface but for the desktop. Not really suitable for power users, developers and business systems.

Anyway, there is no real solution. Eventually, I just had to do more work, compile my own packages, use Fedora Cinnamon Spin for desktops systems and overall work more to get the same things I already had with CentOS 7.

The only issue I haven't figured out yet, is the excessive memory consumption by firewalld... oh well...
--
I love my computer - all my friends live there.
--

owl102
Posts: 385
Joined: 2014/06/10 19:13:41

Re: Disappointed in pickup of new packages in EPEL

Post by owl102 » 2020/09/15 18:37:21

KernelOops wrote:
2020/09/15 17:24:00
and yes, also struggling to get EPEL 8 packages.
I tend to disagree. When CentOS 6 or 7 came out, it took quite some time, too, until EPEL was populated. It would be nice to have some statistical data about it, how much populated it was a year later etc.
There are complaints about GNOME3 as the default desktop, which is a really horrible user interface, mimicking Android/MacOS with a mobile-friendly interface but for the desktop. Not really suitable for power users, developers and business systems.
I'm a power user and a professional developer (since decades) and I really like Gnome 3, and I have migrated all my Xfce and KDE machines to it.
German speaking forum for Fedora and CentOS: https://www.fedoraforum.de/

User avatar
KernelOops
Posts: 346
Joined: 2013/12/18 15:04:03
Location: xfs file system

Re: Disappointed in pickup of new packages in EPEL

Post by KernelOops » 2020/09/16 12:41:03

Well, you are a rare minority. Because I'm involved in Fedora and when it switched to GNOME3, it lost nearly 80% of its user base.

That is why Fedora was forced to release the "spins", with Cinnamon, xfce and others as their default environment.

Without the spins, gnome3 users wouldn't have been enough to sustain Fedora, it would have been another "Netscape"...

PS:
RedHat devs also hate gnome3, interestingly, most people which to "gnome classic", add a bunch of add-ons, various patches and tweaks, to make it usable. Sad really...
--
I love my computer - all my friends live there.
--

User avatar
jlehtone
Posts: 3089
Joined: 2007/12/11 08:17:33
Location: Finland

Re: Disappointed in pickup of new packages in EPEL

Post by jlehtone » 2020/09/16 18:19:01

I don't dislike gnome 3. I simply don't care. I can get to bash; all the other "desktop features" are insignificant to me.


How do the RHEL users react to state of EPEL (the "extra for EL")?

KernelOops wrote:
2020/09/15 17:24:00
The only issue I haven't figured out yet, is the excessive memory consumption by firewalld... oh well...
Do you really need it?

owl102
Posts: 385
Joined: 2014/06/10 19:13:41

Re: Disappointed in pickup of new packages in EPEL

Post by owl102 » 2020/09/16 20:30:35

KernelOops wrote:
2020/09/16 12:41:03
That is why Fedora was forced to release the "spins", with Cinnamon, xfce and others as their default environment.
It was always possible to install Fedora with a different Desktop Environment from scratch, for example I used to install Fedora with Xfce for a very long time, and switched to KDE 4 later on (before Gnome 3). Regarding the live ISOs, there was always a KDE live ISO as alternative, at least since Fedora 7.
RedHat devs also hate gnome3
Source?
German speaking forum for Fedora and CentOS: https://www.fedoraforum.de/

Post Reply

Return to “CentOS Social”